Transcript of #lrnchat 5/7/09

5:31:00 pm  Quinnovator: welcome! To start, as always, “What did you
learn today?” #lrnchat
5:31:46 pm KoreenOlbrish: Good evening learning tweeps! I’m covering
for @marciamarcia tonight with her usual partner in crime,
@quinnovator #lrnchat
5:31:53 pm Quinnovator: @marciamarcia and @moehlert are at a special
event, so @KoreenOlbrish and I are your hosts, as much as anyone is🙂
#lrnchat
5:31:58 pm gminks: I am too braindead to remember if I learned
anything today!! #lrnchat
5:32:27 pm Quinnovator: @gminks well, you learned that! #lrnchat
5:32:40 pm KoreenOlbrish: I learned that often you just need to ask
for what you want #lrnchat
5:33:27 pm silverchirps: Today I learned about @tweetgrid. #lrnchat
5:33:51 pm Quinnovator: wonder who all is out there tonite? if nothing
else, just say “hello” #lrnchat
5:34:00 pm JaneBozarth: @Quinnovator 2day learned sometimes you have
to build a new box. #lrnchat
5:34:20 pm Quinnovator: @silverchirps that’s something I *don’t* know,
what’s @tweetgrid? #lrnchat
5:34:31 pm Quinnovator: @JaneBozarth to think out of? #lrnchat
5:34:36 pm starweaver: Today I learned how complacent I’d become with
a big accomplishment when continuing to push myself will make it an
even bigger one #lrnchat
5:34:41 pm gminks: I learned that talking to executives can be very
taxing #lrnchat
5:35:01 pm Quinnovator: @starweaver that sounds like a great lesson!
#lrnchat
5:35:06 pm jilliant: Hi! I’m out here, but not full of any exciting
new things learned today! #lrnchat
5:35:13 pm KoreenOlbrish: @starweaver wow, that’s a great lesson!
#lrnchat
5:35:15 pm Quinnovator: @gminks when we should be taxing the
executives? #lrnchat
5:35:23 pm silverchirps: @Quinnovator @tweetgrid is like tweetchat and
does a little bit more. #lrnchat
5:35:30 pm Quinnovator: @jilliant only so far! #lrnchat
5:35:37 pm KoreenOlbrish: @Quinnovator jinx! i owe you a Coke…
#lrnchat
5:35:49 pm JaneBozarth: @Quinnovator yes, sometimes out of box not
enough. #lrnchat
5:36:17 pm Quinnovator: @silverchirps will have to check it out!
#lrnchat
5:36:58 pm shantarohse: Hi all. Today I learned I can’t multitask.
Actually I knew this already. #lrnchat
5:37:36 pm Quinnovator: I learned a bit more about managing groups in
Ning #lrnchat
5:37:42 pm tgrevatt: Good evening from Ottawa! #lrnchat/
5:37:56 pm KoreenOlbrish: @shantarohse lol, with all the windows i
keep open, i usually *lose* my multi tasks #lrnchat
5:38:04 pm shantarohse: @JaneBozarth Where else can you go once you
are out of the box? #lrnchat
5:38:08 pm Quinnovator: @shantarohse well, most people can multitask,
but they’re not as effective as when they don’t (research says) #lrnchat
5:38:22 pm silverchirps: @Quinnovator @tweetgrid is great for live
events such as this and now I am using tweetgrid.com #lrnchat
5:38:23 pm Quinnovator: @tgrevatt g’day! #lrnchat
5:38:25 pm JaneBozarth: @shantarohse Friend says she “unitasks”.
#lrnchat
5:39:21 pm Quinnovator: @JaneBozarth I try to ‘unitask’ but get..oh,
look at the shiny new email! #lrnchat
5:39:55 pm jilliant: @Quinnovator and @shantarohse For some reason I
am only effective when I multitask. #lrnchat
5:39:59 pm gminks: @BlancheMaynard you should join #lrnchat!!
5:40:15 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish yeah got me totally refocused on
a very important thing to me that I’d been letting slide a bit –
thanks to a friend #lrnchat
5:40:16 pm tgrevatt: I’m having issues getting tweetchat to display
posts, can anyone recommend another easy way to view the chat, pls
#lrnchat
5:40:19 pm Quinnovator: OK, here’s Q1: “how is play different for
adults, and how does that affect games for learning?” #lrnchat
5:40:38 pm shantarohse: @jilliant You MUST share your secret! #lrnchat
5:40:50 pm Quinnovator: @jilliant some cognitive overhead keeps you
from diverging, (i play solitaire on phone conferences), but too
much… #lrnchat
5:41:06 pm KoreenOlbrish: @starweaver its a true friend that will call
you out😉 #lrnchat
5:41:14 pm silverchirps: RT @Quinnovator: @shantarohse The brain
cannot really do multitask it is just switching rapidly from one task
to another. #lrnchat
5:41:21 pm Quinnovator: @tgrevatt @silverchirps recommended tweetgrid
#lrnchat
5:41:21 pm JaneBozarth: @Quinnovator I am learning right now that
participating in #lrnchat on iphone in moving car harder than I
expected…
5:41:23 pm BradnDeedo: #lrnchat: hello all upgrading OS now so using
iPod to lurk
5:41:25 pm dbolen: games should allow us to discover something, not
just win #lrnchat
5:41:46 pm KoreenOlbrish: I think play is different in that most
adults play with a purpose…don’t usually play for play’s sake #lrnchat
5:41:52 pm Quinnovator: @JaneBozarth LOL #lrnchat
5:41:53 pm BlancheMaynard: I’ve learned that there’s something good in
everyone, but that it takes longer to figure out what it is in some
people #lrnchat
5:41:56 pm CConkey: Conkey is listening tonight on LrnChat – I just
learned from @Jimmysky and @moehlert that Everynote now has a link
into twitter
5:42:27 pm Quinnovator: @dbolen Raph Koster says all games are
learning, but yes! #lrnchat
5:42:27 pm KoreenOlbrish: @JaneBozarth oh drive safe!!! #lrnchat
5:42:40 pm silverchirps: @JaneBozarth I used my Iphone last week and I
was always 5 to 10 minutes behind everybody. #lrnchat
5:42:53 pm Priaak: I learned about the problems colored text boxes
create when a word file is converted into pdf #lrnchat/
5:42:53 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish Indeed! This is a person who has
been instrumental in this particular accomplishement & whose opinion I
value a lot #lrnchat
5:42:57 pm VWassessments: listening 2 presentation in SL, scanning all
tweets showing up on tweetdeck & tweeting this. #lrnchat
5:42:58 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish I sometimes play just as a
break…tho’ maybe that’s a purpose #lrnchat
5:43:00 pm roninchef: Hi everyone. I learned that a little bit of
discipline goes a long way. #lrnchat
5:43:07 pm CConkey: Conkey is listening tonight on LrnChat – I just
learned from @Jimmysky and @moehlert that Everynote now h… less than
a minute ago #lrnchat
5:43:16 pm gminks: @KoreenOlbrish I play for play’s sake — as an
escape #lrnchat
5:43:19 pm jmarrapodi: Evening, #lrnchat from Providence. #lrnchat
5:43:24 pm BradnDeedo: #lrnchat learned to put a few pieces to the
puzzle together. Need to bring some colleagues onboard so I can
collaborate
5:43:52 pm starweaver: @BlancheMaynard lol – I like that! I think that
one goes up in my cube! #lrnchat
5:43:54 pm KoreenOlbrish: @dbolen i like that…do you think adults
play to learn, or play to win? #lrnchat
5:43:57 pm shantarohse: Are there any gamers among us? #lrnchat
5:44:05 pm Quinnovator: @gminks but I’d play for purpose if there were
games that were about what I need to learn #lrnchat
5:44:19 pm Quinnovator: @shantarohse I design them, does that count? I
play some… #lrnchat
5:44:46 pm KoreenOlbrish: i’d consider myself a gamer, and i typically
play to relax…but i do want to win😉 #lrnchat
5:44:57 pm tgrevatt: Hmmm, let’s see how quickly I can learn
tweetgrid, apologies for the test post #lrnchat
5:45:01 pm shantarohse: @Quinnovator🙂 #lrnchat
5:45:04 pm jmarrapodi: @KoreenOlbrish I think it may not necessarily
be an adult differential about playing to win, but gender related.
#lrnchat
5:45:12 pm BlancheMaynard: I’ve learned that 2 people can be very
different yet be the best of friends if they forget about judging
everything the other does #lrnchat
5:45:22 pm Quinnovator: play is different for adults in that they can
do more abstract reasoning, but still need meta-cog reflection to get
lesson #lrnchat
5:45:30 pm rthorprichard: @silverchirps @Quinnovator, I’m a fan of
twitterfall for these real-time conversations. #lrnchat
5:45:35 pm starweaver: @gminks @KoreenOlbrish I don’t play enough
these days. Need to remember to do that more #lrnchat
5:45:39 pm dbolen: @koreenolbrish hope to learn, remember you learn
from failing #lrnchat
5:45:50 pm gminks: @Quinnovator I would too – but I also play just to
play. It is why I love rock band #lrnchat
5:45:51 pm tgrevatt: @shantarohse I work with them too, learning
games. Play them v poorly. #lrnchat
5:45:59 pm rthorprichard: I’m a little late to the chat, so a little
catching up is in order… #lrnchat
5:46:03 pm VWassessments: Was sent this today – been out 4 a couple
wks IQ loss from multitasking http://bit.ly/GB5CE #lrnchat
5:46:32 pm gminks: @shantarohse I game but not as much as the rest of
the members of my household #lrnchat
5:46:43 pm carolwhit: I’ve learned that I still don’t want to work for
stifling corps, but may have to go back to that if I want a roof and a
bed! #lrnchat
5:46:51 pm jmarrapodi: Many hate to fail. Won’t take risks. Think that
influences the gamer-liking or not? #lrnchat
5:46:56 pm starweaver: @jmarrapodi that’s how I see it – but not
entirely gender related – mainly though #lrnchat
5:46:59 pm Quinnovator: @gminks I’d play more, but time! Wish the
casual game movement would get more steam; I want an RPG I can play
casually #lrnchat
5:47:10 pm dbolen: play like dancing, important to try, to dance, even
badly like Matt Harding #lrnchat
5:47:10 pm KoreenOlbrish: funny, i’ve designed learning forever, but
if i had to learn something i’d rather play. teachers make the worst
students🙂 #lrnchat
5:47:15 pm shantarohse: My only experience has been in WOW. I am a
rank beginner and self conscious. But have a friend showing me. #lrnchat
5:47:17 pm rthorprichard: @jilliant Multitasking the the curse of the
competent. Or at least that’s what I like to think.🙂 #lrnchat
5:47:59 pm Quinnovator: @jmarrapodi games can mitigate perf-anxiety
when you play on your own, but games for hard-core gamer aren’t that
approachable #lrnchat
5:48:11 pm jilliant: @shantarohse I guess I’m a gamer too. #lrnchat
5:48:12 pm roninchef: I tend to go between open world games and linear
games as my mood suits me. Somedays you just want a clear goal. #lrnchat
5:48:14 pm BlancheMaynard: I’ve learned to get teased without getting
angry. It’s part of the teasing game, a game that I enjoy thoroughly
#lrnchat
5:48:20 pm jmarrapodi: @starweaver Wondering how far the tilt is.
Females tend to collaborate naturally. Watch 8 year old boys on the
playground. Compete! #lrnchat
5:48:34 pm VWassessments: gamer #lrnchat
5:48:40 pm Quinnovator: @shantarohse I did the free 10day trial, and
stopped WoW after that; addiction risk! #lrnchat
5:48:50 pm tmiket: @KoreenOlbrish Best would be they learn WHILE they
play to win? #lrnchat
5:48:52 pm KoreenOlbrish: RT @dbolen play like dancing, important to
try, to dance, even badly like Matt Harding #lrnchat
5:48:57 pm tgrevatt: @Quinnovator Agree, any games requiring
sophisticated controllers drive me crazy, make me feel a failure. Love
one click games #lrnchat
5:49:30 pm jilliant: @rthorprichard I’ll buy that! #lrnchat
5:49:32 pm jmarrapodi: @BlancheMaynard Oh, do tell the secret. I still
want to sock ’em. #lrnchat
5:49:54 pm starweaver: @jmarrapodi I’d say pretty – but I never like
to talk in absolutes about gender cause I break just bout all of the
“girl rules”🙂 #lrnchat
5:49:53 pm tgrevatt: I think adults need to remember the importance of
play (watch kids) and the value of whimsy too. Never too old for
whimsy. #lrnchat
5:49:55 pm roninchef: Now casual pick up and play games are a
different animal. Lower entry point broader appeal. Bejeweled for
example. #lrnchat
5:50:06 pm rthorprichard: @jmarrapodi Do you think the fear of failure
is learned over time or something generational? #lrnchat
5:50:13 pm Quinnovator: RT tgrevatt Agree, any games requiring
sophisticated controllers drive me crazy, make me feel a failure. Love
one click games #lrnchat
5:50:28 pm BradnDeedo: I like Civilization series n loved myst series
#lrnchat
5:50:30 pm VWassessments: what do you consider adult? lot of 30
something gamers out there. #lrnchat
5:50:35 pm jmarrapodi: @rthorprichard Glad your here though.🙂 #lrnchat
5:50:44 pm KoreenOlbrish: @jmarrapodi i❤ the gender dynamics of
games! but designing for everyone is the challenge for learning #lrnchat
5:50:45 pm starweaver: @tmiket best to learn you don’t always win when
you play – the younger the better #lrnchat
5:51:08 pm rthorprichard: best games ever: The Oregon Trail. Lemonade
Stand. #lrnchat
5:51:17 pm shantarohse: @Quinnovator Am currently readying Digital
culture, play, and identity : a World of Warcraft reader – academic +
funny #lrnchat
5:51:20 pm Quinnovator: @roninchef thinking a hybrid: story,
exploration, advancement, but not complicated key commands, and
reasonable level of diff #lrnchat
5:51:22 pm jmarrapodi: @gminks Do you think gaming is “caught” like
reading? Families that read a lot produce kids that like to read.
#lrnchat
5:51:26 pm dbolen: prefer physical games, tactile badminton, team
volleyball, there you learn #lrnchat
5:51:31 pm tgrevatt: @rthorprichard Feel of failure also related to
willingness to attempt things – eg. degree student vs technicians in
Physics #lrnchat
5:51:46 pm Quinnovator: @starweaver great point: best to learn you
don’t always win when you play – the younger the better #lrnchat
5:51:48 pm jmarrapodi: @rthorprichard Thou art showing thy age, sir.
#lrnchat
5:51:50 pm VWassessments: @tgrevatt – watch a kid play a minigame in
Club Penguin – great demonstration #lrnchat
5:51:50 pm jilliant: Are there any games where the goal isn’t winning?
#lrnchat
5:51:58 pm roninchef: @VWassessments 30 somethings make up the
majority these days. It isn’t really a kids thing anymore. #lrnchat
5:52:08 pm bschlenker: #lrnchat World of Warcraft still has my
attention – Many different ways to play – You’re never really “done”
5:52:23 pm starweaver: @VWassessments adult is whatever age you put a
roof over yer own head & food in yer own mouth without anyones help
#lrnchat
5:52:23 pm KoreenOlbrish: @jmarrapodi interesting idea! my kids love
games…i have *NO* idea where they get that from… #lrnchat
5:52:25 pm Quinnovator: @jmarrapodi yes, my kids read, but they game,
and I didn’t much (son’s practically an addict🙂 #lrnchat
5:52:37 pm tgrevatt: @jilliant check out Flower on the PS3, beautiful
game #lrnchat
5:52:49 pm CConkey: @shantarohse Did Wow for 4 months with Acedemic
guild out of UoInd – that was a blast and of course it was all
academic🙂 #lrnchat
5:52:49 pm Quinnovator: @jilliant you mean, like the goal is
losing?🙂 #lrnchat
5:53:02 pm jmarrapodi: @dbolen A vote for the kinesthetic learner!
Volleyball etc. Had someone try to convince me that computer gaming
was kinesthetic-NOT #lrnchat
5:53:04 pm gminks: @jmarrapodi I think gaming + reading are very
related #lrnchat
5:53:10 pm KoreenOlbrish: @bschlenker is it frustrating to never be
done playing a game? i wonder what you learn from that? #lrnchat
5:53:11 pm VWassessments: @roninchef – I’m one of them. #lrnchat
5:53:15 pm MariaOD: @Quinnovator I don’t play games but a big believer
that games enhance learning #lrnchat
5:53:19 pm roninchef: @jilliant Peggle (SP?) #lrnchat
5:53:43 pm starweaver: @Quinnovator best lessons I’ve ever learned
have come through failure. #lrnchat
5:53:43 pm Quinnovator: @jmarrapodi try the Wii, great innovation in
motion-sensing game play, a real advancement #lrnchat
5:53:54 pm JaneBozarth: Are there any games where the goal isn’t
winning? #lrnchat (via @jilliant)
5:54:07 pm Quinnovator: @MariaOD sound like a theorist!😉 #lrnchat
5:54:08 pm jmarrapodi: @Quinnovator Wonder then if it’s a peer thing.
Like the digital natives. The trendy toys. Then the parents catch on
like Facebook? #lrnchat
5:54:11 pm KoreenOlbrish: I think the Wii is by far the most gender-
neutral gaming experience i’ve seen. Ease of use, kinesthetic
controls, simple design… #lrnchat
5:54:14 pm shantarohse: @CConkey Maybe the Q should be Academics
rather than adults and games.😉 #lrnchat
5:54:24 pm rthorprichard: @tgrevatt Very true. Maybe it’s about using
positive reinforcement for curiosity. #lrnchat
5:54:33 pm tgrevatt: I had a Rockband guitar breakthrough on Tue eve,
can now get through easy levels, woo hoo! Very satisfying. #lrnchat
5:54:36 pm KoreenOlbrish: @Quinnovator Srsly, you’re in my head
tonight! #lrnchat
5:54:39 pm BlancheMaynard: I like slow games that give you time to
develop a relationship with your opponents. Games should be
challenging for the mind + soul #lrnchat
5:54:44 pm Quinnovator: @JaneBozarth @jilliant but whatever the goal
is, even losing, you win if you obtain it, no? #lrnchat
5:55:02 pm jmarrapodi: @Quinnovator Agreed. That is kinesthetic, for
sure. Total body invovlement. Moving a mouse, I’m not so sure. #lrnchat
5:55:14 pm starweaver: @JaneBozarth depends on yer definition of
winning! #lrnchat
5:55:20 pm gminks: me too RT @starweaver: @Quinnovator best lessons
I’ve ever learned have come through failure. #lrnchat
5:55:20 pm rthorprichard: @twfall instead of calling it “fall size”,
how about “tweet history”? #lrnchat
5:55:37 pm KoreenOlbrish: @tgrevatt oh, i need a break through on
Guitar Hero. I’m losing my Rock Goddess confidence😉 #lrnchat
5:55:46 pm Quinnovator: @BlancheMaynard absolutely: Sid Maier “games
are a series of interesting decisions” #lrnchat
5:56:03 pm dbolen: all the world’s a game, we’re merely players, Billy
Shakespere #lrnchat
5:56:05 pm gminks: @JaneBozarth sure — D&D is not a win game. unless
you play with jerks. #lrnchat
5:56:09 pm jmarrapodi: @BlancheMaynard Q- Are you usually social in
life too? If you have a Myers Briggs world, there’s an E and an F in
your profile? #lrnchat
5:56:14 pm VWassessments: w/ games & reading – have u ever started 2
read a book/play a game get so immersed that u continued until the sun
came up. #lrnchat
5:56:15 pm KoreenOlbrish: interesting to think about the tipping point
from challenging to frustrating…what makes us *quit* playing? #lrnchat
5:56:23 pm Priaak: @jmarrapodi try Wii Fit #lrnchat/
5:56:24 pm Quinnovator: @gminks @starweaver Shank: “you’ve got to
fail, to learn” #lrnchat
5:56:24 pm roninchef: I tend to develop software sims like I would a
video game. Add the chance of failure and people tend to remember.
#lrnchat
5:56:39 pm rthorprichard: @KoreenOlbrish I completely agree WRT Wii.
It’s as fundamental as the GUI was to computing in the early 80s.
#lrnchat
5:56:43 pm tgrevatt: @KoreenOlbrish I wish I knew how it happened!
Still can’t play with my tongue in though! #lrnchat
5:56:47 pm roninchef: @gminks Or for money. #lrnchat
5:56:48 pm jmarrapodi: @rthorprichard Tell me more about reinforcing
curiousity. I like that. #lrnchat
5:57:21 pm jilliant: @Quinnovator True – but the goal could be to
explore, to learn, to play. If that is achieved, it isn’t really
winning… #lrnchat
5:57:33 pm tgrevatt: @KoreenOlbrish I quit when there is not good
scaffolding, no fail mode on Rockband is fab. I am a lazy learner
these days. #lrnchat
5:57:35 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish right, we spend a lot of time
wondering how to make games fun, what makes them ‘unfun’? #lrnchat
5:57:46 pm shantarohse: @jilliant Perhaps it is easier to talk about
games that aren’t about competition? #lrnchat
5:58:09 pm starweaver: @gminks we teach our kids that there is no
failure & that “everyone is a winner” all the time which fails them as
adults #lrnchat
5:58:12 pm Quinnovator: @roninchef moreover, the failure can be
useful: if you have the right alternatives (misconceptions), you can
address them! #lrnchat
5:58:30 pm CConkey: @KoreenOlbrish Not being able to break 100
landings in FlightControl (Iphone app) is what makes me quit – gets
frustrating #lrnchat
5:58:36 pm jmarrapodi: @VWassessments Oh yeah. Another example of
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s Flow. #lrnchat
5:59:05 pm KoreenOlbrish: in designing learning games, most
organizations don’t like people to be able to fail, yet failure’s a
powerful lrng tool #lrnchat
5:59:05 pm rthorprichard: @KoreenOlbrish Great question! (But
incredibly tough to answer w/o thinking too hard. Certainly not easy
to answer in 140 chars!) #lrnchat
5:59:09 pm Quinnovator: @jilliant one theorist-four types of players:
social, explorer, achiever, trouble-maker #lrnchat
5:59:14 pm tgrevatt: @Quinnovator ‘unfun’ if failure comes too
quickly, for me Forza Racing was too tricky, so gave up. WII is
forgiving, incremental #lrnchat
5:59:31 pm roninchef: @shantarohse Like the SIMS or Spore? There has
to be a hook something for people to come back to. #lrnchat
6:00:01 pm gminks: @Quinnovator we have a game to teach ITIL
principles, and you fail for the first part of the day. LOL its a
great game #lrnchat
6:00:03 pm Quinnovator: @tgrevatt yep, right level of challenge:
Czikszentmihalyi’s Flow #lrnchat
6:00:14 pm KoreenOlbrish: RT @Quinnovator @jilliant one theorist-four
types of players: social, explorer, achiever, trouble-maker. I know
which one i am… #lrnchat
6:00:14 pm dbolen: how many play solitaire on conference calls? #lrnchat
6:00:26 pm BradnDeedo: @jilliant winning is rather nebulous acheiving
a goal is that winning? I feel exhiliration solving problems I see
myself as winning #lrnchat
6:00:26 pm VWassessments: @jmarrapodi – it helps me explain immersion
to non-gaming instructors who have had that experience w/ reading
#lrnchat
6:00:28 pm jmarrapodi: @tgrevatt Maybe that’s why I liked WII. One of
the only games I played longer than a bit. #lrnchat
6:00:37 pm gminks: RT @KoreenOlbrish: in designing learning games,
most orgs don’t like people to be able to fail, yet failure’s a
powerful lrng tool #lrnchat
6:00:51 pm roninchef: Good games are a lot like good books. I just
need one more minute, I want to see what happens next. #lrnchat
6:01:14 pm VWassessments: @tgrevatt – like Papert’s discussion of
“hard fun” #lrnchat
6:01:21 pm rthorprichard: @starweaver @gminks Granted, that’s an
issue. But for gaming (and learning more broadly) emphasis on
experimentation is good. #lrnchat
6:01:31 pm tgrevatt: @gminks better to fail in a game than in real
life, hence such widespread military adoption of training games #lrnchat
6:01:32 pm KoreenOlbrish: Love the momentum! So, Question 2: how are
you making your learning experiences more engaging? #lrnchat
6:01:34 pm starweaver: @dbolen normally I’m coding during conference
calls – poorly, but I’m at least getting work done #lrnchat
6:01:37 pm Priaak: I wouldn’t mind failing if its just me and the
computer/game in isolation but if there is a team I wouldn’t like
failing #lrnchat/
6:01:53 pm jmarrapodi: @roninchef Games then, must have a good story
in them to keep you compelled. #lrnchat
6:01:59 pm roninchef: @gminks I you design a game without the element
of failure is it still a game? Nothing ventured and all that. #lrnchat
6:02:13 pm VWassessments: @dbolen – depends on where I am – sometimes
its WoW #lrnchat
6:02:24 pm Quinnovator: elements of game include challenge: implies
risk/failure #lrnchat
6:02:33 pm rthorprichard: @jmarrapodi Essentially, it’s about teaching
brainstorming, systematic evaluation, trial and observation, and
honing each time. #lrnchat
6:02:41 pm KoreenOlbrish: is failure engaging? I love the challenge of
trying to win something difficult #lrnchat
6:02:53 pm starweaver: @rthorprichard @gminks but what do you learn if
your experiment doesn’t fail vs. If it does?that’s the point I was
making #lrnchat
6:03:03 pm rthorprichard: Wow. I’m surprised I could answer that in
140 chars! #lrnchat
6:03:08 pm Quinnovator: (other elements: meaningful story that learner
cares about, feedback, choice, … ) #lrnchat
6:03:17 pm VWassessments: started you use the phrase cytie ( causes
you to ignore everything) #lrnchat
6:03:24 pm postrockalypse: @lrnchat Hey sexy, haven’t seen you around
before! Do you come here, often?
6:03:27 pm KoreenOlbrish: @rthorprichard well played, sir #lrnchat
6:03:30 pm starweaver: @Priaak no one LIKES to fail. #lrnchat
6:04:01 pm MariaOD: @KoreenOlbrish element of competition and teams
with reward #lrnchat
6:04:01 pm bschlenker: @jmarrapodi how then would you explain card
games, and other “casual game”? No story line there, but VERY
addictive. #lrnchat
6:04:04 pm Quinnovator: they who fail fastest win? #lrnchat
6:04:10 pm shantarohse: RT KoreenOlbrish is failure engaging? I love
the challenge of trying to win something difficult #lrnchat
6:04:20 pm roninchef: @jmarrapodi To a degree, but it is more than
that. Games are movies, books, and our own imagination braided
together. #lrnchat
6:04:26 pm postrockalypse: @lrnchat when the answer is ready the
question will appear. if the artist cannot find the way, then the way
cannot be found. @mckenna @thc
6:04:35 pm rthorprichard: I learned to speak Japanese (and can still
speak it to this day) because I was taught to blurt it out, even if I
think it’s wrong. #lrnchat
6:04:50 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish If someone or something tells me
I cant do something my stubborn hot headed italian side comes out &
says “oh yeah?” #lrnchat
6:04:54 pm dbolen: do you remember the successes or the failures?
#lrnchat
6:04:55 pm gminks: @starweaver no one likes to fail, but I love to
break things and put them back together. is that the same thing?
#lrnchat
6:04:59 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish believe there’s vastly
different levels of comfort with ‘fail’ depending on self-confidence,
context, reward, etc #lrnchat
6:05:07 pm KoreenOlbrish: @starweaver no one likes to fail, but does
it prompt you to try harder? is failure a catalyst for engagement &
ultimately success ? #lrnchat
6:05:12 pm tgrevatt: Failure is engaging if you are compelled to try
again, ie close failure. Or think of gambling – I’ll win it next time
etc #lrnchat
6:05:13 pm jilliant: @KoreenOlbrish Failure is more engaging if
winning is nearly attainable. I’ll try again as long as winning still
seems possible #lrnchat
6:05:36 pm silverchirps: RT @Quinnovator: (other elements: meaningful
story that learner cares about, feedback, choice, … ) and consider
prior knowledge #lrnchat
6:05:39 pm jmarrapodi: @bschlenker So much for THAT theory. Good
point. The winning, maybe there. #lrnchat
6:05:40 pm MariaOD: @bschlenker build on the tried and true #lrnchat
6:05:50 pm VWassessments: @priaak – teams fail too one of most famous
LeRoy Jenkins http://bit.ly/TuHEj warning strong language #lrnchat
6:06:00 pm JaneBozarth: JaneBozarth@tgrevatt Love yr description of
figuring it out being ‘satisfying’. Why I love platform iPhone games
like Bobby Carrot #lrnchat
6:06:05 pm shantarohse: @rthorprichard How were you taught to “blurt
it out” And was it engaging? #lrnchat
6:06:05 pm Priaak: wouldn’t what is failure be different from person
to person unless the game defines it? #lrnchat/
6:06:17 pm starweaver: @dbolen does that have to be an either or? I
remember both for a success usually doesn’t come without a failure or
two alongside it #lrnchat
6:06:18 pm starweaver: @dbolen does that have to be an either or? I
remember both for a success usually doesn’t come without a failure or
two alongside it #lrnchat
6:06:19 pm VWassessments: @rthorprichard good job! #lrnchat
6:06:21 pm Quinnovator: @jilliant then there’s behaviorist research
about reinforcement schedules: partial random reinforcement most
powerful (e.g. Vegas) #lrnchat
6:06:24 pm rthorprichard: @starweaver wow. now that’s impressive
(coding during conf. calls). #lrnchat
6:06:26 pm KoreenOlbrish: RT @jilliant Failure is more engaging if
winning is nearly attainable. I’ll try again as long as winning still
seems possible YES! #lrnchat
6:06:58 pm starweaver: @gminks noooo – yer just inquisitive.. And a
little strange but I digresss😛 #lrnchat
6:06:58 pm roninchef: I didn’t like failure for a long time. Now
failure is part of the process. Just a step on the road to success.
#lrnchat
6:07:44 pm jmarrapodi: RT @Roninchef “Games are movies, books, and our
own imagination braided together.” Love that. #lrnchat
6:07:46 pm VWassessments: @dbolen in games you remember the failures
(quests) that turned into successes #lrnchat
6:07:48 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish for me personally? HELL Yes. For
others? Not necessarily. #lrnchat
6:08:00 pm rthorprichard: @starweaver unless it causes the whole class
to start laughing. (Common occurrence while learning Japanese.)😉
#lrnchat
6:08:00 pm tgrevatt: Engagement also tied to relevancy of material, we
see it with usability testing, choose the right demographic for
testing #lrnchat
6:08:14 pm bschlenker: @JaneBozarth There might be a game in
that…#lrnchat while driving…can anyone code that and have it for
us for next week?
6:08:45 pm roninchef: Without failure how do you know if your doing it
right? #lrnchat
6:08:48 pm starweaver: @jilliant for me, the more impossible &
improbable the more I strive for it. But that comes from my background
#lrnchat
6:08:51 pm Quinnovator: @tgrevatt yep, two types of meaningful: action
really related to context, and context of interest to learner/player
#lrnchat
6:08:54 pm KoreenOlbrish: Q2: how are you making your learning
experiences more engaging? (perhaps besides failure🙂 #lrnchat
6:09:18 pm gminks: @starweaver heh so you love me.🙂 #lrnchat
6:09:24 pm KoreenOlbrish: RT @roninchef Without failure how do you
know if your doing it right? #lrnchat
6:09:49 pm Quinnovator: RT KoreenOlbrish Q2: how are you making your
learning experiences more engaging? (perhaps besides failure🙂 #lrnchat
6:10:06 pm tgrevatt: @KoreenOlbrish Also appropriate use of humour and
audio usually have to tone it down for clients though😦 #lrnchat
6:10:13 pm starweaver: @rthorprichard heh. Something to pass the time
and keep the mind occupied. Its usually crappy & errored filled, but
its something #lrnchat
6:10:26 pm VWassessments: always have to test the physics of the game
#lrnchat
6:10:27 pm Quinnovator: I find that you can make even multiple choice
Q’s like mini-scenario challenges #lrnchat
6:10:38 pm jmarrapodi: @dbolen Leaders are remembered for the success
of saving something from failure. Particularly new CEOs. #lrnchat
6:11:14 pm gminks: more engaging – adding more multi-media (camtasias
instead of text, etc) #lrnchat
6:11:21 pm KoreenOlbrish: i try to develop characters and storyline
for engagement. Give learners something to relate to, to get invested
in. #lrnchat
6:11:22 pm rthorprichard: Wieden+Kennedy (marketers for Coke, Nike)
are big on failure. They have a HUGE sign that says “Fail Harder” http://bit.ly/8WLue
#lrnchat
6:11:52 pm shantarohse: Learning from / being engaged by failure. I
don’t know. Failure might be over-rated. #lrnchat
6:11:57 pm dbolen: jmarrapodi except when they fail months/years later
#lrnchat
6:12:06 pm emd5005: RT @tgrevatt Engagement also tied to relevancy of
material, we see it w/ usability testing, choose right demographic for
testing #lrnchat
6:12:06 pm victorlopezg: @Quinnovator hi there! can you explain
further “mini-scenario challenges”? I’m paying attention🙂 #lrnchat
6:12:08 pm Quinnovator: I like Cathy Moore’s action mapping as a help
towards making elearning engaging/gamelike http://blog.learnlets.com/?p=817
#lrnchat
6:12:08 pm roninchef: @tgrevatt I am using more music these days. As
well as humor. My org builds Vet lab equipment so there is a ton of
potential comedy #lrnchat
6:12:09 pm jmarrapodi: Q2 To make more engaging- connect with the
learner’s reality #lrnchat
6:12:37 pm Quinnovator: @gminks if done well, but can interfere, and
too often see production values trump design #lrnchat
6:12:38 pm JaneBozarth: Q2: really working to find ways of providing
real-world problems for learners to work on #lrnchat
6:12:38 pm KoreenOlbrish: @jmarrapodi LOL, funny to think that as a
new CEO that success might = saving something from failure🙂 #lrnchat
6:13:21 pm Priaak: provide feedback for both success and failure
#lrnchat/
6:13:25 pm silverchirps: RT @jmarrapodi: Q2 To make more engaging-
connect with the learner’s reality (empathy) #lrnchat
6:13:41 pm rthorprichard: @Quinnovator @jilliant YES! That was just
starting to seep through my mind too. Several lines of research there
related to this. #lrnchat
6:13:47 pm jmarrapodi: To make more engaging – connect with the
learner’s actual need #lrnchat
6:13:56 pm Quinnovator: @victorlopezg instead of “is X a Y or Z”,
something like “in situation A, and have to choose to do Y or Z, you
have been given X” #lrnchat
6:14:00 pm JaneBozarth: There was a tweet earlier today to the tune of
“learning occurs at the edges of the learner’s prior knowledge” #lrnchat
6:14:04 pm roninchef: @jmarrapodi getting to know your audience is key
here. What makes them come to work? #lrnchat
6:14:18 pm KoreenOlbrish: @Quinnovator agree that scenario-based
learning can be powerful. mini-lessons, mini-stories #lrnchat
6:14:32 pm silverchirps: RT @jmarrapodi: To make more engaging –
connect with the learner’s actual need #lrnchat
6:14:46 pm carolwhit: @rthorprichard That’s a Google philosophy too.
Fail many times to get it right, hence all the betas #lrnchat
6:14:46 pm VWassessments: more role play ; more Shaffer’s epistemic
games – placing students in roleplaying where they act as if they are
in profession #lrnchat
6:14:55 pm dbolen: re q2 must be relevant #lrnchat
6:15:00 pm Quinnovator: @victorlopezg it’s about rewriting Q’s to be
interesting decisions, not knowledge recitation #lrnchat
6:15:15 pm gminks: RT @JaneBozarth: There was a tweet earlier today to
the tune of “learning occurs at the edges of the learner’s prior
knowledge” #lrnchat
6:15:30 pm JaneBozarth: Q2 involve target learners in the needs assess
process (usually mgmt, others, not learners) to find THEIR real needs
#lrnchat
6:15:39 pm KoreenOlbrish: @JaneBozarth i like that…relates to an
earlier tweet i saw on scaffolding. support learners till they achieve
the next level #lrnchat
6:16:07 pm Priaak: you can also create branched scenarios based on the
answer the learner selects #lrnchat/
6:16:08 pm marciamarcia: Hoping #lrnchat is great fun tonight. Off to
sleep now after a long day at #ttiv. Speaking tmorrw at 10:50a.
@moehlert will likely tweet it.
6:16:23 pm VWassessments: anybody ever play Budget Hero?#lrnchat
6:16:27 pm rthorprichard: Q2: Making it meaningful and relevant on an
individual level (neither of which are easy) are key ingredients.
#lrnchat
6:16:32 pm tgrevatt: @JaneBozarth Absolutely – get inside the
learners’ heads, and understand their fears too #lrnchat
6:16:37 pm Quinnovator: @victorlopezg for a brief treatment, see: http://blog.learnlets.com/?p=801
#lrnchat
6:16:40 pm jmarrapodi: @marciamarcia Loved following you today. Thanks
for all the updates. #lrnchat
6:16:57 pm KoreenOlbrish: @marciamarcia good night Marcia! Break a leg
tomorrow! #lrnchat
6:16:57 pm JaneBozarth: Ditto on @Quinnovator: trick is to find an
interesting treatment for the instruction. #lrnchat
6:17:17 pm roninchef: @KoreenOlbrish Like a good game, the users
experience should be cumulative. We’re building you up here. #lrnchat
6:17:37 pm Quinnovator: @marciamarcia rock ’em! #lrnchat
6:17:51 pm BlancheMaynard: I’ve learned than when you have to get up
early, you have to go to bed early..even when you don’t feel like it.
Good night! #lrnchat
6:18:12 pm jmarrapodi: Epistemic games for those who don’t know, like
me! http://epistemicgames.org/eg/?cat=5 #lrnchat
6:18:36 pm rthorprichard: Random side question. This is my first
#lrnchat, though I’ve participated in #educhat a few times. How do the
two groups compare/contrast?
6:18:37 pm Quinnovator: @Priaak yep, branching better than linear or
mini and next to full model-driven, pretty good approximation: high
value for low cost #lrnchat
6:18:47 pm carolwhit: @Quinnovator Nice post! Will have to go back and
read it all, but first bits look really helpful. #lrnchat
6:19:01 pm KoreenOlbrish: @roninchef interesting difference btwn games
that “build” & games that you replay. both have their place in
learning design! #lrnchat
6:19:14 pm JaneBozarth: Q2: make sure emphasis is on what they need to
DO, not KNOW #lrnchat . (“Know” is what mgmt says; “do” is what
learner needs).
6:19:26 pm KoreenOlbrish: @BlancheMaynard thanks for joining us!
#lrnchat
6:19:48 pm Quinnovator: @rthorprichard don’t know educhat, think this
is more general (corp/org) rather than K12/highered (that’s a guess)
#lrnchat
6:19:53 pm silverchirps: RT @tgrevatt: @JaneBozarth Absolutely – get
inside the learners’ heads, and understand their fears too (empathy)
#lrnchat
6:20:37 pm KoreenOlbrish: @JaneBozarth VERY important distinction that
ties directly to engagement & motivation. What do they need to DO
differently? #lrnchat
6:20:55 pm rthorprichard: @KoreenOlbrish @roninchef And, there’s using
games for entirely new purposes. E.g., Red vs. Blue series http://bit.ly/pUiCN
#lrnchat
6:20:59 pm Quinnovator: RT @JaneBozarth make sure emphasis is on what
they need to DO, not KNOW. (“Know” is what mgmt says; “do” is what
learner needs.) #lrnchat
6:21:01 pm jmarrapodi: RT @gminks RT @JaneBozarth: “learning occurs at
the edges of the learner’s prior knowledge” Know what they do know to
bring new. #lrnchat
6:21:24 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish yep, what ‘decisions’ do they
need to be able to make that they can’t do now? #lrnchat
6:21:36 pm tgrevatt: @KoreenOlbrish Games are great for learning and
assessing skills, more diff to make them for pure knowledge transfer,
less fun too #lrnchat
6:21:51 pm KoreenOlbrish: @rthorprichard nice! I need to check this
out! Thanks! #lrnchat
6:21:59 pm JaneBozarth: Find real objectives. No one ‘s ever stopped
me in a hallway and asked me to “list” anything. #lrnchat
6:22:23 pm KoreenOlbrish: @tgrevatt lol, yes, sometimes games just
aren’t the answer (unfortunately! ) #lrnchat
6:22:39 pm roninchef: @jmarrapodi Isn’t that one of Gagne’s rules?
#lrnchat
6:22:45 pm jmarrapodi: RT @tgrevatt Games are great for learning and
assessing skills, more diff to make them for pure knowledge transfer,
less fun too #lrnchat
6:23:39 pm Priaak: RT @JaneBozarth: Find real objectives. No one ‘s
ever stopped me in a hallway and asked me to “list” anything. #lrnchat
#lrnchat/
6:23:46 pm gminks: goodnight #lrnchat peoples!
6:23:47 pm VWassessments: @rthorprichard re-watched some Red v. Blue
last night – wondering are the fcaulty ready for this at the inhouse
conference #lrnchat
6:23:53 pm rthorprichard: @KoreenOlbrish The whole premise of RvsB was
based on a bug that allowed the characters to mimic speaking by
bobbing their head. #lrnchat
6:24:25 pm victorlopezg: @Quinnovator nice! assessment and learning
become one -> practice #lrnchat
6:25:12 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish Give someone a reason that they
will need to access this in <insert amount of years> & you will to get
them to learn #lrnchat
6:25:13 pm rthorprichard: @KoreenOlbrish RvsB became so popular that
Microsoft left the bug in (and added other theatrical “bugs”) in later
versions. #lrnchat
6:25:18 pm KoreenOlbrish: @rthorprichard wait, so it was accidental
learning? my favorite😉 #lrnchat
6:25:38 pm tgrevatt: @victorlopezg Yes, we can do that – it’s a bit
ahead of the adoption curve though, orgs still comfy with train + test
#lrnchat
6:25:47 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish sacrilege; games can *always*
be the answer! #lrnchat
6:26:11 pm tgrevatt: @Quinnovator LOL! #lrnchat
6:26:47 pm KoreenOlbrish: @Quinnovator i know, i know…must surrender
my game designer card now. <sigh> #lrnchat
6:26:49 pm roninchef: @KoreenOlbrish Not really accidental. Some
gamers look for the flaws first. To get the edge. RvB was a happy
result of that. #lrnchat
6:26:58 pm Quinnovator: ok, Q3: How do you link games into formal,
performance support, social media? What are the relations? #lrnchat
6:27:14 pm JaneBozarth: @starweaver or number of days! LOL #lrnchat
6:27:27 pm Quinnovator: (we’ve got a game movement going here that I’m
just not going to break) #lrnchat
6:27:51 pm KoreenOlbrish: @roninchef Ah, then a happy accident🙂
Those are pretty good too. #lrnchat
6:28:09 pm JaneBozarth: @Quinnovator SM could provide good platform
for role-playing games #lrnchat
6:28:10 pm tgrevatt: Q3 – use output of games performance to create
adaptive learning path (game based or otherwise) #lrnchat
6:28:17 pm roninchef: @KoreenOlbrish Bob Ross FTW!!!! #lrnchat
6:28:25 pm KoreenOlbrish: @Quinnovator I actually love the idea of
games for assessment, but tying assessment to games makes them less
fun😉 #lrnchat
6:28:54 pm rthorprichard: Q3: Staff Trading Cards. The rule: you can’t
do your own. #lrnchat
6:28:57 pm jmarrapodi: @roninchef Gagne’s third event is “Stimulate
recall of prior learning” so yes, it’s connected. Just googled 2 see
if his quote, no. #lrnchat
6:29:03 pm Quinnovator: I obviously think games aren’t learning tools
‘in and of themselves’ (great research project), needs guided
reflection, hence SoMe #lrnchat
6:29:41 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish no, games are inherently
assessment, you have to perform! Just matter of ‘framing’ #lrnchat
6:29:55 pm jmarrapodi: @KoreenOlbrish However! if we use a game to
assess and the learner doesn’t know it’s an assessment, we can measure
skill w/out fear #lrnchat
6:30:05 pm MariaOD: RT@JaneBozarth make sure emphasis is on what they
need to DO, not KNOW. (“Know” is what mgmt says; “do” is what learner
need)#lrnchat
6:30:06 pm tgrevatt: @KoreenOlbrish I even find those personality
assessment quizzes fun (like DISC), imagine a game giving you
behaviour info… #lrnchat
6:30:10 pm Quinnovator: @JaneBozarth great idea! SoMe for RPG #lrnchat
6:30:30 pm KoreenOlbrish: @roninchef look at all the happy little
trees! one right here, let’s make another one over here…<3 Bob
Ross😉 #lrnchat
6:30:50 pm Quinnovator: reckon games should incorporate same perf
support tools that they’d see in the world, too #lrnchat
6:30:59 pm rthorprichard: Oh, and for those that want to followup re:
gender and gaming, the best resource I know on the topic is Sherri
Graner Ray. #lrnchat
6:31:14 pm jilliant: @jmarrapodi How can you hide the fact that it’s
an assessment? #lrnchat
6:31:32 pm Priaak: games can be used for more than assessment, for
instance you can use a game format to create-entire module content
using scenarios #lrnchat/
6:31:47 pm Quinnovator: @tgrevatt ah, learning characteristics via
game: Room with 2 doors, speaker says door A, sign says door B, which
do you pick? #lrnchat
6:31:54 pm roninchef: @jilliant Have a loot drop at the end. #lrnchat
6:31:55 pm rthorprichard: @KoreeenOlbrish Okay, at first I totally
missed the Bob Ross reference. But then you mentioned “happy little
trees”. Perfect! #lrnchat
6:31:56 pm KoreenOlbrish: @jmarrapodi but if they don’t know, is it
true assessment? part of play is sometimes just seeing what happens
when u lose #lrnchat
6:32:02 pm tgrevatt: @Quinnovator Agree, we have to build effective
reflection into game-based learning – SoMe is great for regular gaming
#lrnchat
6:32:09 pm JaneBozarth: @Quinnovator Here let’s try: I’ll be the
cranky trainer, you be the noncompliant subject matter expert🙂
#lrnchat
6:32:52 pm KoreenOlbrish: @rthorprichard YES! Saw her speak on gender
and games at Austin GDC last fall–INSPIRING #lrnchat
6:33:10 pm roninchef: @Quinnovator Zork as training tool? #lrnchat
6:33:19 pm silverchirps: Good night #lrnchat colleagues! I will check
the transcript later. I enjoyed the session. See you again here next
week.
6:33:31 pm rthorprichard: @KoreenOlbrish @jmarrapodi Am I missing
something (it’s getting late)? Why does the learner need to know it’s
an assessment? #lrnchat
6:33:43 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish but isn’t that assessing your
handling of failure? #lrnchat
6:33:54 pm JaneBozarth: @KoreenOlbrish Oh I loved the guy with the
happy little trees! Found it very soothing and mesmerizing. I miss him
— #lrnchat
6:34:05 pm Quinnovator: @rthorprichard still don’t get it, who’s Bob
Ross? (cultural literacy lack #232) #lrnchat
6:34:05 pm Quinnovator: @JaneBozarth been there, done that (it’s an
activity in my game design workshop!) #lrnchat
6:34:06 pm Quinnovator: @JaneBozarth been there, done that (that’s an
activity in my game design workshop!) #lrnchat
6:34:40 pm KoreenOlbrish: @starweaver lol, but organizations typically
aren’t big on allowing people to fail😉 oh, the crazy cyclical
process… #lrnchat
6:34:48 pm Quinnovator: g’night to the folks who’re leaving, thanks
for playing! #lrnchat
6:34:58 pm starweaver: @rthorprichard and wouldn’t a better assessment
be when someone isn’t oin edge about being assessed? #lrnchat
6:35:02 pm rthorprichard: RT (while laughing): @JaneBozarth Here,
let’s try: I’ll be the cranky trainer, you be the noncompliant subject
matter expert🙂 #lrnchat
6:35:36 pm roninchef: @Quinnovator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Bob_Ross You know, for later:) #lrnchat
6:35:51 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish ah, culture’s a, er, bear.
#lrnchat
6:36:11 pm jmarrapodi: @jilliant Tell them it’s a game. They don’t
need to know it’s an assessment. It’s all in framing. #lrnchat
6:36:22 pm tgrevatt: in-game assessment can be a cost effective
alternative to a live observation, especially if scenario is v
realistic- calibration #lrnchat
6:36:31 pm Quinnovator: @roninchef Thanks! Open in New Tab is a
wonderful thing. #lrnchat
6:36:31 pm rthorprichard: @starweaver Exactly. “Hidden Assessment”
Hmm… interesting product idea… real potential in the K12 market
for that. #lrnchat
6:37:00 pm Quinnovator: @tgrevatt yep, better to fail in a sim/game
than when people’s lives are at stake! #lrnchat
6:37:05 pm Priaak: games don’t have to be always scored – create games
where people don’t feel they are being tested. #lrnchat/
6:37:14 pm roninchef: @Quinnovator It is all about the fan brush.
#lrnchat
6:37:18 pm jmarrapodi: Hey all you gaming thinkers is anyone going to
be at LEEF? http://www.harrisburgu.net/LEEF2009/index.php #lrnchat
6:37:20 pm rthorprichard: Great chat everyone. Oh, and just a
reminder, this account is my Twitter avatar. The real me is
@thorprichard (follow that one). #lrnchat
6:37:27 pm Quinnovator: @rthorprichard though I don’t buy the whole
‘stealth learning’ thing #lrnchat
6:37:33 pm starweaver: @rthorprichard Hidden assessment is what anyone
does with a kid in play or art therapy if they’re any good at it
#lrnchat
6:37:47 pm tgrevatt: @jmarrapodi alas no, but will be at ICELW, wish I
could be at LEEF too #lrnchat
6:38:10 pm Quinnovator: @starweaver and it should be portfolio
*anyway* so everything they do is an assessment! #lrnchat
6:38:26 pm JaneBozarth: @Quinnovator Bob Ross did a painting show on
PBS years ago. Everything he did included ‘happy little trees’. #lrnchat
6:38:33 pm Quinnovator: @jmarrapodi LEEF? frayed knot #lrnchat
6:38:40 pm KoreenOlbrish: i think people know when they are
learning…trying to manufacture “stealth” seems forced and maybe
dishonest? #lrnchat
6:38:40 pm allisunelearns: Darn! I keep meaning to join in on my first
#lrnchat and missing it. Distracted by travel arrangements for
MoodleMoot in San Fran. Next wk!
6:39:10 pm jmarrapodi: @tgrevatt I wonder if there’s a way to get a
game-ish assessment for my lowest level adult readers that doesn’t
look like kidstuff? #lrnchat
6:39:17 pm JaneBozarth: RT @jmarrapodi: @jilliant Tell them it’s a
game. They don’t need to know it’s an assessment. It’s all in framing.
#lrnchat
6:39:27 pm KoreenOlbrish: @jmarrapodi I’m presenting at LEEF! will you
be there? #lrnchat
6:39:33 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish and for transfer, you kinda
gotta make it explicit or you risk not having it happen (from analogy
research, my PhD) #lrnchat
6:39:34 pm roninchef: @allisunelearns We still have about 20 minutes
left. #lrnchat
6:39:54 pm jmarrapodi: @allisunelearns Hey! We’re here! Just like the
Whos in Whoville.🙂 Glad you joined in. #lrnchat
6:40:11 pm Quinnovator: @jmarrapodi short answer, yes! What are you
assessing, reading skills? Just a matter of making it meaningful…
#lrnchat
6:40:36 pm tgrevatt: @jmarrapodi Anything is possible with a will and $
$😉 #lrnchat
6:40:39 pm KoreenOlbrish: @Quinnovator i hadn’t thought of the
transfer angle! that makes a lot of sense, if you don’t know you’re
learning it, y apply it? #lrnchat
6:41:17 pm jmarrapodi: @KoreenOlbrish Likely not. Still on the fence
though. I’m so not a game developer. #lrnchat
6:41:36 pm Quinnovator: one of the interesting opportunities, too, is
ARGs, making games mobile, and spread throughout your environment
#lrnchat
6:41:55 pm KoreenOlbrish: @tgrevatt it just struck me that will and $$
are 2 of the biggest motivators, too #lrnchat
6:42:07 pm Quinnovator: @tgrevatt right, the limits are no longer the
tech, the limits are between our ears (and our pocketbooks🙂 #lrnchat
6:42:25 pm shantarohse: Manipulation, stealth assessment vs portfolio.
Great topics for future lrncht (or moral decay)? #lrnchat
6:42:31 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish Does a kid really get that
they’re learning math when learning music or building a birdhouse?
Stealth is possible. #lrnchat
6:42:32 pm jmarrapodi: @tgrevatt Oh yes, true true. Adult Education is
using listservs and proud of their “technology”. #lrnchat
6:42:45 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish or if it’s contextualized,
you’ll never abstract and apply in another relevant context #lrnchat
6:43:03 pm hybridkris: @Quinnovator I agree games are assessments in a
sense. As an example Flt Sim rated you on performance. #lrnchat
6:43:06 pm jilliant: @KoreenOlbrish Yes – hard to be sneaky re lrng/
assessment OK to let them know what it is, then surprise them by
making it fun. #lrnchat
6:43:22 pm Quinnovator: @starweaver right, layering it on, but when
it’s made meaningful, it’s still math, but it’s *relevant*! #lrnchat
6:43:36 pm tgrevatt: @jmarrapodi The spectrum of eLearning these days
is incredibly broad, even in the learning games space the spread is
huge #lrnchat
6:43:44 pm starweaver: @jmarrapodi adult ed is more and more becoming
distance learning which is a lot more than just listservs #lrnchat
6:44:11 pm KoreenOlbrish: @starweaver maybe that’s a difference in
play/games for adults? are we always aware or looking for hidden
meaning/value? #lrnchat
6:44:16 pm Quinnovator: @jilliant or do it the other way, get them
doing something interesting, then point out the relevant math/science/
reading/lesson #lrnchat
6:44:34 pm VWassessments: @jmarrapodi but u may want 2 look at ARGs –
u may find the story development, clues plot twists &”puppetmastery”
interesting #lrnchat
6:44:45 pm KoreenOlbrish: RT @jilliant hard to be sneaky re lrng/
assessment OK to let them know what it is, then surprise them by
making it fun #lrnchat
6:45:03 pm jmarrapodi: @Quinnovator Yes, reading skills,
comprehension. Need to determine where the holes are in the Swiss
cheese @ 2nd GrLv reader adult. #lrnchat
6:45:06 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish I think you hit the nail on the
head. We don’t have time if it doesn’t have a point. #lrnchat
6:45:26 pm Quinnovator: what about different pedagogies, instead of
concept/example/practice-game; Game surrounded with concept and
example resources? #lrnchat
6:45:46 pm jmarrapodi: @VWassessments What’s ARGs? #lrnchat
6:45:49 pm MrsMica: @Quinnovator software for learning languages uses
game-like competition against self and immediate feedback to enhance
learning #lrnchat
6:46:25 pm KoreenOlbrish: ARG = alternate reality games (mix of real
and digital) #lrnchat
6:46:26 pm roninchef: @jmarrapodi Alternative Reality Games #lrnchat
6:46:30 pm jmarrapodi: @MrsMica Talk to me. What software. Rosetta
Stone? #lrnchat
6:46:34 pm Quinnovator: @MrsMica it is just scored practice, or
contextualized? #lrnchat
6:46:46 pm JaneBozarth: I think sometimes what we call “learning” is
what the learner calls “solving a problem”. ? #lrnchat
6:47:19 pm starweaver: @Quinnovator look @ Mythbusters! when was
Science in a classroom ever that much fun? learn more science watching
that than college #lrnchat
6:48:04 pm KoreenOlbrish: RT @JaneBozarth I think sometimes what we
call “learning” is what the learner calls “solving a problem” #lrnchat
6:48:11 pm jmarrapodi: @Quinnovator Isn’t “Game surrounded with
concept and example resources” just scenario based case studies?
#lrnchat
6:48:18 pm Quinnovator: we did an ARG demo that had messages coming in
via email/voicemail/SMS: sales training spread out over players life
like real #lrnchat
6:48:35 pm roninchef: @JaneBozarth We want to have that grander role
in their hearts. When all they want is it fixed. #lrnchat
6:48:37 pm VWassessments: AR = augmented reality, ARG = alternate
reality game but they a game could be both #lrnchat
6:48:48 pm tgrevatt: @starweaver lol – science training does such a
disservice to the discipline, it’s way more fun in practice #lrnchat
6:48:52 pm Quinnovator: @starweaver my kids LOVE Mythbusters! Over
dinner tonite wondered what having them as Sci teachers would be like
#lrnchat
6:49:00 pm 360Kid: @VWassessments Q: anybody ever play Budget Hero?
Find it here, developed by my company, 360KID, for APM http://tr.im/
kNf8 #lrnchat
6:49:19 pm Quinnovator: @jmarrapodi yep, case-based or problem/project-
based learning #lrnchat
6:49:25 pm jmarrapodi: @JaneBozarth Yup & they don’t even know it
sometimes.🙂 The kindergarten model. What did you learn today.
Nothing. We just played. #lrnchat
6:49:34 pm JaneBozarth: May I just interject that this is so much fun
I can hardly stand it? #lrnchat
6:49:39 pm KoreenOlbrish: ARGs have great potential for passing
heavier tech like VWs and MMO games for learning purposes…realistic
context, low cost #lrnchat
6:49:54 pm starweaver: @tgrevatt Totally! Show me how to blow things
up you teach me for a day, let me blow things up & I learn for a
lifetime😛 #lrnchat
6:49:57 pm Quinnovator: @JaneBozarth yep, learning = problem-solving,
design, innovation, creativity… #lrnchat
6:50:10 pm Quinnovator: @JaneBozarth scandalous! We don’t allow fun
here! #lrnchat
6:50:19 pm jmarrapodi: @Quinnovator That sales demo sounds fab. #lrnchat
6:50:20 pm MrsMica: @jmarrapodi Rosetta the most recent example I have
seen, but seen many similar #lrnchat
6:50:43 pm jmarrapodi: @MrsMica Seen anything for ESL? #lrnchat
6:50:48 pm KoreenOlbrish: OK, all of you smart lrnchatters! Last 10
minutes are open for public “asking for help.” If you’ve got a
problem, let us help! #lrnchat
6:50:55 pm Quinnovator: @jmarrapodi ahead of it’s time; we couldn’t
get traction! #lrnchat
6:51:24 pm jmarrapodi: @JaneBozarth Oh, and in our fun are we *gasp*
learning too? #lrnchat
6:51:55 pm Quinnovator: last 10 mins: offers, requests, can we help
you or you us (I’m sure RFPs most welcome😉 #lrnchat
6:51:58 pm VWassessments: @KoreenOlbrish & I think instructor could
understand them easier – develop an assignment similar to National
Treasure #lrnchat
6:52:10 pm JaneBozarth: @Quinnovator I know. I won’t tell anyone on
the outside. #lrnchat
6:52:14 pm allisunelearns: I am excited by possibilities of 3D Gaming.
How might gaming dev 4 learning be diff in 3D enviro? http://bit.ly/iKm3E
at 3:30 #lrnchat
6:52:32 pm KoreenOlbrish: There is a blasphemous rumor floating around
that learning can be fun. Who’s spreading this?🙂 #lrnchat
6:53:38 pm Quinnovator: @KoreenOlbrish oh no, we’re not having fun
here,honest! #lrnchat
6:53:48 pm carolwhit: I’m looking for new ID consulting gigs. Have
tried all the usual places, hoping to build some new networks. #lrnchat
6:53:54 pm jilliant: OK but language & scenarios =easy to see a
connection to fun/games.What about when the subject isn’t so spicy?
Accounting?Software? #lrnchat
6:54:02 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish tell that to my psych profs –
they’re all about as fun as paint drying😛 #lrnchat
6:54:35 pm Quinnovator: @allisunelearns shoulda been here last week!
(Sorry, old surfer joke, no matter how good or bad, “you shoulda been
here yesterday”) #lrnchat
6:54:39 pm KoreenOlbrish: Anyone in the Chicago area next week? I’ll
be in town for a conference; maybe a tweet up is in order? #lrnchat
6:54:50 pm MrsMica: @jmarrapodi besides Rosetta? they have English,
too #lrnchat
6:55:04 pm starweaver: @jilliant that’s where we earn our money isn’t
it? Real world sims with present day twists perhaps? #lrnchat
6:55:22 pm MariaOD: Where does learning fit in during times of tight
budget and bare bone staffing? #lrnchat
6:55:37 pm starweaver: @KoreenOlbrish tell that to my psych profs –
they’re all about as fun as paint drying😛 #lrnchat
6:55:44 pm KoreenOlbrish: @carolwhit DM me your info and I’ll keep my
ear to the ground! #lrnchat
6:55:50 pm tgrevatt: @jilliant Non-spicy stuff can be done, it takes
some design effort, we made games for ISO9001 training and similar
#lrnchat
6:55:57 pm VWassessments: @jilliant have accounting instructor who
does Budget Hero, WoW & an ARG based on D.B. Cooper & AR using
GoogleMapmashups & twitter #lrnchat
6:56:16 pm Quinnovator: @carolwhit lot of that going around! #lrnchat
6:56:21 pm carolwhit: @KoreenOlbrish Thanks! Will do. I appreciate it.
#lrnchat
6:56:26 pm starweaver: @MariaOD we see learning as an investment in
our current staff & clients as a way to retain them #lrnchat
6:56:42 pm Quinnovator: @starweaver they should know better! #lrnchat
6:56:43 pm KoreenOlbrish: @MariaOD tighter budgets demand creative
solutions–sometimes more money does not = better learning! #lrnchat
6:57:07 pm carolwhit: @Quinnovator Yes, that’s what’s making it so
difficult this time!🙂 #lrnchat
6:57:23 pm Quinnovator: @MariaOD investment in capacity, so better
able to respond when things turn up again! #lrnchat
6:57:35 pm allisunelearns: #lrnchat I’m available for any Moodle Q’s
6:57:42 pm KoreenOlbrish: @VWassessments now that’s an accounting
class I would take! #lrnchat
6:57:42 pm VWassessments: @KoreenOlbrish bootstrapping all the way
#lrnchat
6:58:10 pm roninchef: @KoreenOlbrish That is straying into Edupunk
territory I think. DIY. Another night for that talk. #lrnchat
6:58:36 pm Quinnovator: @MariaOD seriously, seeing investing in ways
for people to help each other (Social Media) is paying off #lrnchat
6:58:50 pm jilliant: RT @KoreenOlbrish: @VWassessments now that’s an
accounting class I would take! #lrnchat AMEN!!
6:59:13 pm KoreenOlbrish: @roninchef i know, i’m going to put myself
out of business, talking like that😉 that is a great topic for a
future chat! #lrnchat
6:59:14 pm msmithpds: responding to the video gaming disc. – seen this
ted? #lrnchat http://tinyurl.com/3epfp7
7:00:22 pm Quinnovator: we’re at the end of formal time, thanks SO
much for great thoughts, contributions, questions, and fun! (oops,
scratch that last🙂 #lrnchat
7:00:39 pm KoreenOlbrish: 10 pm and all’s well! Thanks @quinnovator &
@marciamarcia for allowing me to crash-host the #lrnchat party! #lrnchat
7:00:55 pm allisunelearns: @roninchef @KoreenOlbrish would luv to chat
on Edupunk next week; I tried to start a Sudbury School – almost as
radical as u get. #lrnchat
7:00:59 pm Quinnovator: g’night, and hope to ‘see’ you next week!

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